Energy. Everywhere. The Emerald Horizon Podcast (English Version)

00:00:00: On one hand you can install an SMRX directly into a ship and then that ship runs for twenty years without needing a refill.

00:00:07: For example, if the hospital is completely self-sufficient... The question is of course If we have so many use cases Then also need enormous manufacturing power to be able produce them.

00:00:21: But it's exactly sweet spot of video That what do We bring?

00:00:26: engineering expertise A large experience in industrialization and a huge manufacturing base on global scale, we bring that together.

00:00:35: What we need to achieve is quite simple We have to keep energy-intensive industries... ...in Europe

00:00:40: And those are the markets of the future.

00:00:42: So thats where money has to be.

00:00:44: When the money and technology companies like Emerald are all together then we say yeah okay hey that works!

00:00:50: We need to produce something too.

00:00:52: Then its our turn, than it's our time.

00:00:57: How do we secure the future

00:00:58: for our

00:00:59: energy supply?

00:01:01: The answer is in the new podcast

00:01:02: from Emerald Horizon.

00:01:04: Energy

00:01:05: Everywhere for everyone who wants

00:01:07: to know what comes

00:01:08: after

00:01:08: oil,

00:01:09: gas

00:01:10: and

00:01:10: coal?

00:01:11: How does a technological development in the lab become a product that can be industrially manufactured used worldwide... ...and bring about change into omnipresent energy question?

00:01:23: That's exactly todays.

00:01:24: Energy Everywhere is About!

00:01:26: The Podcast by Emerald horizon.

00:01:29: And with that A warm welcome to another episode.

00:01:32: Emerald Horizon is now bringing a strong industrial partner on board for this major step, and that's the Dutch company VDL!

00:01:40: This morning so fresh before our conversation... ...another important phase in collaboration was officially sealed at Grads Laboratory.

00:01:50: And now….

00:01:50: The key minds from both companies are sitting here with us at the microphone.

00:01:56: Who is with me?

00:01:57: With me is Dr.

00:01:58: Mario Müller, Head of Research at Emerald Horizon as well as Emerald Horizons CEO Florian Wagner Norbert Hofer Vice President of Strategic Communications and Hans Prim from VDL And we also have Marc-Jan Vermeer from Eindhoven As a guest so Also From the Netherlands.

00:02:17: Warmly welcome everybody.

00:02:18: Welcome to energy everywhere.

00:02:20: Before We talk about this partnership first Of all norbert hofer What is the current situation in the world, the geopolitical situation?

00:02:29: How can Emerald Horizon be a game changer here.

00:02:32: If

00:02:32: we look

00:02:33: at the last few months and consider what happened in Europe but not only in Europe there was drought... ...and everything we relied on in recent years namely that there's energy from run-of river power plants or of course nuclear power.

00:02:48: this energy was suddenly no longer there.

00:02:51: There were too little The river water was too warm, and therefore nuclear power plants had to be scaled back.

00:02:58: And the run-of-river power plants could no longer deliver the output

00:03:01: either.".

00:03:03: That is one side of what we experienced... ...the second side are wars!

00:03:07: As long as I've been on this earth for quite a few years now there have been wars in regions where there's oil or gas or uranium being enriched.

00:03:18: that leads to tensions And what we have is a true peace technology, because our reactor first of all doesn't need water for cooling.

00:03:28: But we also don't need uranium and no weapons-grade material can be made from it... ...and we can use to bring energy to regions where there's currently energy poverty….

00:03:39: …and that the great thing about this concept!

00:03:42: A beautiful vision?

00:03:43: Now let us look at how we make THIS a reality.

00:03:47: Thank you very much for the question and thanks for the invitation on my end as well.

00:03:52: The question was how can we implement it?

00:03:54: And today, we have a very big moment in that we are presenting the full version of what implementation looks like.

00:04:09: We will hear presentations today.

00:04:11: On the one hand, what does SMRX look like?

00:04:20: proof or law of physics behind it.

00:04:24: And today, and we are particularly proud of this... We will hear our primary partners like the VDL group from Holland who on one hand have now worked out in close cooperation over a long period of time.

00:04:40: can they build the joint product?

00:04:42: do they want to build it, what function will they have and define the three work streams that then come together to form this cooperation.

00:04:52: Now just briefly for the listeners who don't um...have these on their radar yet SMRX?

00:04:58: What is that anyway?

00:05:00: SMRx is the answer to the question how can you store energy produce energy and not just store energy in the form of electricity, but also in a high-temperature heat now.

00:05:16: And then also produce it later upgrade.

00:05:20: That is SMRX!

00:05:23: Today we were able to visualize this image where four containers are standing together on top which describe these four tasks or arms And below that, below the surface sort of like at a gas station where the tank is underneath.

00:05:40: This loop also here in this SMRX image and these magic loops will be demystified by our physicist as he explains how it works together.

00:05:56: big part of today's podcast.

00:05:59: Regarding SMRx, we already established in one of the previous episodes, SMRX stands for Extraordinary because an extraordinary amount of things become possible with it!

00:06:10: What exactly?

00:06:11: That is a nice way to put that.

00:06:13: people see as extraordinary.

00:06:16: One of the big strengths of the SMR concept is what you call a sweet spot.

00:06:24: A sweet spot in terms of size.

00:06:26: So we've defined a ten megawatt target.

00:06:30: That's the power output that an SMRX is supposed to deliver and that's in a container format.

00:06:36: And this Combination leads to a very, very long list Of use cases.

00:06:43: I'd like to start with what being discussed most In media and thats definitely The data center question.

00:06:53: And here SMRX is actually particularly well suited.

00:06:58: Why?

00:06:59: Data centers typically have power needs in the range of ten to a hundred megawatts, one SMRx delivers ten megawatths.

00:07:09: That means if a medium-sized one needs forty, well then you need four of them.

00:07:14: If it needs eighty than eight of them.

00:07:17: and first of all that's incredibly scalable in a modular way And It can grow along with the data centers.

00:07:24: on The other hand it has the advantage that its always the exact same setup Of these containers?

00:07:31: From a service perspective maintenance perspective usability and planning perspective is an excellent fit.

00:07:38: That's just one use case.

00:07:39: Another, another use case that I personally really like is um...that it can make critical infrastructure self-sufficient.

00:07:47: It's a pretty ideal use case for a hospital.

00:07:50: For example if you install an SMRX the hospital Is completely self sufficient?

00:07:56: It doesn't matter at all what's happening around it patients Can continue to be treated

00:08:01: So a certain level of crisis resilience as well?

00:08:03: Absolutely absolutely yes!

00:08:05: It helps here too.

00:08:06: and The next area of application is we've built a lot of wind farms and photovoltaic systems, right?

00:08:15: SMRX helps here too.

00:08:17: On the one hand, storage capacity can be used to channel and optimize this fluctuating energy when it doesn't shine or so on... These power lines, which aren't being used when the sun isn't shining can still be used by the SMRX to feed power in and upgrade the existing infrastructure.

00:08:42: To provide a base load supply And that's very good.

00:08:47: traditional power plants are also getting an upgrade like a coal fired power plant or maybe even an older style nuclear power plant.

00:08:57: What do you do with a coal plant?

00:08:59: You burn coal to get heat, right?

00:09:01: But that heat can also come from the SMRX.

00:09:04: Replacing the combustion process with a CO-II free process and rest of infrastructure still be used.

00:09:12: That means you're not forcing operator shut down but upgrade.

00:09:17: Another use case really surprised me.

00:09:20: where we've already signed NDAs was in food industry For drying processes, for example where our thermal storage is already a big help or baking process and things like that.

00:09:34: But then later on the professional or much larger production volume from the full SMRX will help ensure we don't produce CO₂ for food anymore but can manage without it yet?

00:09:48: Another segment always gets overlooked in the transport sector transport in several ways.

00:09:54: On the one hand, you can build an SMRX directly into a ship and then the ship runs for twenty years without needing to be refueled yeah?

00:10:01: Now that's not new!

00:10:03: Another segment that always gets overlooked is the transport sector.

00:10:07: Transporting in several way.

00:10:08: on the one-hand You could build an smrx Directly Into A Ship And Then The Ship Runs For Twenty Years Without Needing To Be Refueled.

00:10:15: Yeah now That'S Not New.

00:10:16: Yeah, we know that from aircraft carriers or nuclear submarines for example.

00:10:20: But that was only for military purposes.

00:10:22: now when you have something that can't explode on its own That's obviously great because you can use it in civilian applications too but It goes further.

00:10:30: the next smaller thing is maybe airports.

00:10:33: You can put an smrx at an airport and produce fuel right there making the air traffic self-sufficient On one hand, but also more cost effective And ultimately co to free.

00:10:43: It goes even further to gas stations.

00:10:46: If you picture a gas station, You have the tank underground right?

00:10:48: That's where our loop would be which produces heat and above ground... ...you'd have fueling stations.

00:10:54: those will be containers that convert it into electricity.

00:10:57: And with this if we think about ten megawatts A car might need half a megawatt of charge in future.

00:11:03: then you can charge twenty of these cars in parallel.. ..and transition a gas-station network pretty quickly.

00:11:09: Even there is no power grid connected And the time delays for that are excellent.

00:11:14: This is actually charging infrastructure everyone's been looking at a long time, right?

00:11:18: It would solve problems.

00:11:20: Absolutely!

00:11:21: Especially in remote areas and... That brings me to my favorite topic.

00:11:25: My favorite topic is emerging markets so regions where there're lots of suffering.

00:11:32: by providing self-sufficient energy all of sudden it becomes possible.

00:11:36: You can desalinate, you have water.

00:11:39: You can build schools... ...you can establish industry and do all these things All of a sudden.

00:11:44: they're doable even if there's no grid or infrastructure in place to begin with Or even in politically unstable regions.

00:11:53: That is very nice image.

00:11:59: how should I say, last but not least you can convert entire towns to SMR access.

00:12:05: But this is a very big contribution in the heavy industry and especially when you think of aluminum production.

00:12:16: they need gigantic amounts of energy yeah?

00:12:19: And then you could put these SMR axes directly into the plant just like photovoltaics might be used now without being connected to a grid, so I don't need power for that.

00:12:31: Directly supply these high energy consumers and thus relieve the grid or make it possible at all where there isn't

00:12:41: one.".

00:12:42: The question is of course when you have many use cases – this brings me into our partners – then we also need enormous manufacturing power in green factories.

00:12:57: And for that, I'm pleased many who may have already read details from the last year and a half.

00:13:04: That today we're having our first joint also public appearance where our Dutch partners at the end of the day to put it simply say We are ordering two hundred and fifty SMR axis per year please?

00:13:20: You said got it!

00:13:21: Yeah...and thats'the beauty.

00:13:23: being in position when you want be that we can actually roll this out and technically implement these x, which also stands for scalability so for multiplication.

00:13:34: And therefore the transition to our guests why they are so important?

00:13:41: So then you do mass production later!

00:13:45: To get there... They have a second function Which is to do co-development with us in order to speed up the process of going from a semi-finished setup, their clear interest is they want to fill the factories and for that will support us or are supporting as best possible way.

00:14:09: so this works quickly.

00:14:12: So we have deal which has united us

00:14:16: As far as I know was finalized today just before our conversation.

00:14:20: I hope you also celebrated with a proper toast, right?

00:14:23: To be honest we haven't gotten around to it yet.

00:14:25: for us It's always work first.

00:14:28: But yeah You're right We should actually think about celebrating.

00:14:33: Maybe First of all i'd like hand over to the technical director who will briefly explain this physical check mark, like this law of physics.

00:14:46: How it works and why physics here is beyond question?

00:14:50: Please go ahead!

00:14:51: Thank you very much Florian Wagner.

00:14:53: And with that I'd like to hand things over Dr.

00:14:57: Mario Müller Because as we said today there's a technological goal which can change a lot.

00:15:03: What exactly is being set up here?

00:15:05: what does it look like?

00:15:07: we've already heard about loop.

00:15:08: We have mentioned SMRX and there are other components involved, like thorium etc.

00:15:14: this now your absolute area of expertise.

00:15:18: thank

00:15:18: you very much.

00:15:19: I'm always been asked to explain things in a way that people can understand And I once learned that the best way is always to explain it so a six-year old child can understand.

00:15:28: Technologically speaking, you've come in the right place with me and many others too!

00:15:32: Thank You very much!

00:15:33: So i already tried explaining this in our press conference today by comparing the aris loop which basically takes life into a cardiovascular system.

00:15:47: In a circulatory system we have a pump or heart that makes sure the blood circulates in our system.

00:15:55: In our aeros loop, the blood corresponds to salt.

00:16:00: There is also an energy carrier which in this case is thorium and it doesn't release all by itself.

00:16:09: It needs stimulation from outside.

00:16:12: That's a particle accelerator you can compare with a pacemaker.

00:16:17: That means we provide stimulation from the outside via particle accelerator, which ultimately generates neutrons.

00:16:23: And these neutrons give that specific nudge to the thorium so that it releases energy into salt and makes the salt warm.

00:16:38: then the salt heats up continuously as long as the accelerator is running.

00:16:43: This heat in the salt of course you want use.

00:16:46: We use it by having elements in this loop that extract the heat.

00:16:52: If you compare to organism again, maybe lungs are closest where heat is also released through breathing and this heat exchanger allows us exactly take out of salt then run something whether we produce electricity or provide directly for industry which has a huge hunger for energy Or we also use it as Florian Wagner already described to produce hydrogen, for example.

00:17:19: We need hydrogen in the future for mobility but we also needed for airplanes a synthetic fuel.

00:17:24: that means all of magic happens.

00:17:27: if you want look at this system is pure physics.

00:17:31: But with these physics what do we limit?

00:17:35: Namely nothing happens.

00:17:37: That means safety by design or thinking about how make it safe from very beginning is built into the development from the start.

00:17:46: And here I am very grateful for cooperation, which has now become even stronger with VDL because a large company like VD L naturally has much more experience in this regard especially towards industrialization than we do and here found this point here.

00:18:08: We are talking about two different companies, two different countries but now with a common goal and if I may build on that image to explain it so six year old can understand you could say Emerald Horizon has sketched out these beautiful vision of the future And VDL is now bringing the colored pencils to fill it in.

00:18:29: You could definitely look at it that way because basically we are of course a startup from Austria, often modest size.

00:18:35: We're very highly motivated people smart To discuss all these things.

00:18:40: but the point Is not just do-it once But to do multiple times and also make it bigger?

00:18:44: For that you need someone who's bigger.

00:18:46: so like when A child goes their parents says please help us.

00:18:49: So of course, we're going to take a look at VDL now.

00:18:52: Many of you already know Emerald Horizon very well from the podcast.

00:18:57: vdl is still new.

00:18:58: obviously all We can say that it's a large company and how they found You?

00:19:04: How you find each other will talk about That in a moment.

00:19:07: but I think there's Still A bit more To Say About The technology.

00:19:10: First!

00:19:12: How big Can You Imagine an SMRX to be?

00:19:16: You already mentioned Thorium, which also plays a role.

00:19:19: Many people aren't familiar with that yet.

00:19:21: where does it come from and why is it only being used now?

00:19:24: So basically the dimensions we've chosen for any systems we build are always in container format.

00:19:30: this has several reasons.

00:19:31: It's basically manageable In terms of sizing can be reproduced.

00:19:36: It can also be easily coupled together, which means scaled and set up modularly.

00:19:40: That's a very essential point.

00:19:42: if you want to make things as simple as possible You also have to look at them in way that everyone involved Can handle them both us as developers and VDL is the producer ultimately And you're so asked where the thorium comes from?

00:19:56: Why hasn't it been used for a long time?

00:19:59: The issue is this, Thorium is not an unknown.

00:20:01: It's been around for two hundred years.

00:20:04: Thorium also had its heyday in Austria as a form of special applications that an Austrian inventor Auer von Welsbach brought into the world.

00:20:12: then it slept for a long time and about twenty years back in the spotlight so to speak.

00:20:20: Thorium was found all over the World.

00:20:23: That material or metal actually We don't use the metallic form, but in the form of salt.

00:20:30: That's an important point!

00:20:31: It is not something that floats around in the salt... ...but basically it is about us using the whole thing

00:20:40: accordingly.".

00:20:41: And

00:20:41: finally… The big question for many probably – so Thorium as a sensational alternative to weapons-grade plutonium

00:20:50: etc.,

00:20:51: uranium?

00:20:52: But what's left

00:20:52: over?!

00:20:53: Many people are also afraid of the so-called waste.

00:20:56: Exactly, I was asked this question today too – where there is little not much can arise in a first place?

00:21:01: That's already an advantage.

00:21:03: Thorium itself has completely different starting point than uranium because by using thorium we can indeed release energy from the nuclei but no substances were created that ultimately problematic for long time.

00:21:15: and finally with the system have small amount remains at end as residue.

00:21:22: use this small amount if you keep the accelerator running.

00:21:25: That means we have a small recycling technology already on board and can basically bring the limit down like

00:21:30: that.".

00:21:31: The goal is finally to have medical waste, so nuclear waste yes!

00:21:35: So...a huge impact?

00:21:37: And…basically almost no waste left over.

00:21:40: Sensational.

00:21:44: which was born in Graz, through Emerald Horizon is being implemented by VDL in the Netherlands so that this vision can really become a reality.

00:21:54: And I think that's something we all want to discuss with you.

00:21:59: two more guests today at the studio.

00:22:00: So as we've already said today At first glance Two pretty different companies are coming together here on one side A large established industrial group and On The Other A relatively young technology company, it sounds a bit like opposites attract.

00:22:18: To be even more precise, if I may say so... ...a four billion euro group from the Netherlands is cooperating with an up-and-coming technology company from Austria.

00:22:29: Hans Priehm how did that come about?

00:22:31: Of course

00:22:32: there's also big element of luck involved.

00:22:35: you have to get know each other and the panoramic behaviour of small companies is often much greater than that of a large company.

00:22:44: And, um... That's very important for us in the dynamics of the company to have the mix of process and process discipline and all many things lots of me since one but then also To hold on to that entrepreneurial behavior.

00:23:00: On this way it's really important.

00:23:02: who's also work together with an MR leading from a cultural point of view.

00:23:07: So you're offering Emerald Horizon new opportunities And Emerald Horizon is bringing you a breath of fresh air.

00:23:13: Absolutely,

00:23:13: and that's also an adventure for us in this context.

00:23:17: You know it's all so new and colleagues are like oh what's that?

00:23:22: A bit wild But yeah but its the breath of Fresh Air.

00:23:28: To get back to your question There still some luck involved.

00:23:32: That one thing Also our strategy Our Strategy For The Future VDL in two In twenty thirty.

00:23:39: What does that mean?

00:23:42: And those are the markets of the future.

00:23:44: For us, this is semiconductor equipment and from there we learn how to build complex systems within the right budget... ...and also in the right time-to-market.

00:23:59: We bring it into our cooperation with Emerald.

00:24:05: Semiconductors, that's one and the bread-and-butter for us.

00:24:14: But of course we're also working on defence now.

00:24:17: That is just how it is these days with geopolitics.

00:24:22: It's also commercial space And energy Nuclear power...that is very interesting.

00:24:31: They have Florian shown already Talked about that too, of course.

00:24:34: Why?

00:24:35: That's so interesting and we agree with it.

00:24:38: is

00:24:38: this also a new field for you to get involved in?

00:24:41: yeah And that's four.

00:24:43: For technology Yeah But the approach The process no.

00:24:47: thats system architecture Thats precision Mechanics thats physics We've got under control And were always looking at right mix.

00:25:02: Like Mario said, it's the specific physics of nuclear power.

00:25:08: Of molten salts which the Emerald team has but then also our contacts with research institutes because its very complex and really an adventure that we're taking on together.

00:25:20: It sounds like it!

00:25:21: Yeah yeah... And our system knowledge Time to market, ramp up global presence.

00:25:27: So we have plans in the Netherlands of course but also Switzerland and Singapore, US and China.

00:25:35: so that's when everything is okay

00:25:41: right?

00:25:41: Sounds like the right two has found each other!

00:25:44: That's very nice.

00:25:45: What does your strategy actually look like in the nuclear power sector?

00:25:49: Well...of

00:25:50: course

00:25:51: We are a contract manufacturer, and we enable our partners to be successful.

00:25:58: So then of course it's not just Emeralds... ...we try to build the network for relevant companies with relevant technology.

00:26:07: so there is not only Emerald or other companies but also developed technologies that sell their solutions in the market.

00:26:18: But building the technology networks.

00:26:22: Because it's not just companies like Emerald, but is a combination of companies like emerald relevant technology research institutes Not only in Austria But also in The Netherlands Also In UK and Switzerland All the way to Singapore And building the network Of investment community.

00:26:47: So money that has to be there too.

00:26:49: And when the money and technology, companies like Emerald are together.

00:26:54: Then we say yeah okay hey that works We need to produce something too.

00:26:59: then it's our turn.

00:27:00: That is a whole network that we try to build

00:27:03: An exciting journey together?

00:27:05: How do you actually move into implementation from a technology in the lab really Into industrial manufacturing?

00:27:12: I'll be talking with your colleague about this In just a moment.

00:27:15: Yes

00:27:15: sounds good.

00:27:15: Thank You Hans-Prim.

00:27:17: Mr.

00:27:17: Vermeer, you are managing director of the VDL ITG Technology and Development.

00:27:23: when a technology moves from a laboratory in Graz into industrial production what actually has to change?

00:27:31: That's very good question!

00:27:33: Thank You.

00:27:33: Of course that is all about making a product once to prove its functionality really something different than making it in a repeatable way, and also scalable so that can be delivered in volume.

00:27:50: But this is exactly the sweet spot of VDL.

00:27:53: That's what we do.

00:27:54: We bring engineering expertise A large experience in industrialization And huge manufacturing base on global scale.

00:28:03: We bring them together for very long time Only by ourselves, we do that in a vast network of partners.

00:28:14: That's actually the key thing to bring into this whole exercise.

00:28:20: You have a lot knowledge about infrastructure and your partner experience but what are their biggest challenges from you?

00:28:29: So

00:28:31: the biggest challenge is actually what you already pinpointed.

00:28:34: And indeed with our background, also technology backgrounds we have very related or close knowledge domains that are relevant particle accelerators thermodynamics fluid dynamics those all in play for the MROT SMRX but it is just a little bit different and its nuclear.

00:28:56: that's new for us.

00:28:58: But with our process of bringing those early-stage concepts, prototypes in a controlled stage gated way to manufacturable practical and scalable solutions That what we can bring to this.

00:29:12: When

00:29:13: you first heard about Emerald Horizon What was your thought?

00:29:17: Which came into the mind at first?

00:29:19: Well... the human reaction, you have to imagine.

00:29:23: we have over five hundred engineers and a large part of that population is also younger generation.

00:29:29: And even... That part is even more enthusiastic because when talking about energy there's big problem with world-problems on energy in an possible way To solve this energy problems without all the negatives of horrible waste and huge drain off natural resources.

00:29:51: So that appeals a lot and drives actually, to that extent it fits with the VDL purpose.

00:29:59: To make the world better and smarter in healthier place for our next generations.

00:30:03: so yeah hard-to-deny that's perfect fit!

00:30:11: What have you already done together with Emerald Horizon?

00:30:14: Yeah, we've already did a lot because it's not starting here.

00:30:17: We were working on feasibility studies and that really proves how promising the technique is... ...that has been there for years of work from emerald themselves And collaboration started much earlier brings us to this point.

00:30:35: That very promising outcome of feasibilities drives in our next phase to start concepting and building prototypes.

00:30:44: How far are the prototypes by now?

00:30:47: It's in various separate elements, we will focus on actually three elements as a borax.

00:30:53: That'll be the storage unit or the cowl store.

00:30:56: that will be the loop and it will be accelerated technology.

00:31:01: Those are fitting most to also our technology, but that's the part we will further bring into a man-effect for both situations.

00:31:10: So everything is developing and what we need from this is... We know it!

00:31:15: Money makes the world go round… And thats' tthe next part of Florian Wagner.

00:31:20: so thank you Mr.

00:31:21: Vermeer!

00:31:22: Emerald Horizon has been listed on The Vienna Stock Exchange since June.

00:31:26: twenty twenty six Florian Wagner, what does this step mean for the company?

00:31:35: What does that mean now today?

00:31:58: Uh, what kind of milestone is that?

00:32:01: or how can you put it into context.

00:32:03: Maybe I can go in to stock market mechanics a bit so that you can understand the big why this is so relevant.

00:32:08: uh i think everyone would agree That if such an sma x let's assume we have and everything were already like that The moe ld Would be one Of the most valuable companies In the world.

00:32:26: And in numbers, if you start from the back that would certainly be hundreds of billions.

00:32:32: I think everyone would also agree.

00:32:34: seven years ago it was still zero.

00:32:39: and now a big question is how can we at least get closer to this?

00:32:43: Where do we stand there between hundreds or billions?

00:32:47: And there are established mechanisms for how you calculate something like that.

00:32:53: So, start by discounting it down yes?

00:32:55: You say okay you discounted for example by twenty-five percent to today so from I don't know thirteen fourteen fifteen years to today but then you still get a double digit billion amount.

00:33:09: Yes and Then you go and say ok How likely is it actually that we really get this done?

00:33:17: Yes, how high the probability of occurrence for that.

00:33:21: And you multiply down again by this probability of occurrences.

00:33:25: So what's relevant now?

00:33:27: because today?

00:33:28: Probability of occurrence made up on one hand technology will be done technologically and implementation.

00:33:36: then there are regulatory part.

00:33:38: The big step today was a symbol of the fact that we are actually improving the probability of occurrence in almost all these areas at the same time.

00:33:52: I think everyone would also agree if there is a technology partner who, as described has experience in essential core technologies that we need like accelerator technology.

00:34:02: Like molten salt technology and the like If you can bring it into this accelerates process increases probability of occurrence.

00:34:10: Everyone will agree yes Even if this is the new thing, of course VDL itself has never done it either because nobody has done it yet.

00:34:18: But who?

00:34:19: If not a company like that?

00:34:20: as to prerequisites take this step two and they have also proven with many other things that there are optimized with new things.

00:34:27: That might've been a bit bumpy at the beginning.

00:34:30: I once heard story about ASML.

00:34:32: They described me version could only print these chips for twenty minutes a day, and then they optimized it.

00:34:41: And that is exactly the strength brought to this model where today every microchip in the world has ASML technology.

00:34:49: so who else if not them?

00:34:51: Our colleague from Holland said, yes it was luck.

00:34:53: It was really luck too.

00:34:54: but Luck is also often the ally of The Diligent and you might have just seen that.

00:34:59: But we looked at many companies.

00:35:01: That's our absolute dream candidate.

00:35:03: And they said yes They didn't do this out of motivation.

00:35:08: because well... We like each other.

00:35:10: Not for emotional reasons as has been said through a feasibility study Through cooperation preparation The teams getting to know eachother forming working groups Long story short, the probability of occurrence has thereby also signaled to the outside improved in technology and implementation.

00:35:30: Also a bit at the interface to regulation because if you have good processes in place You can also dock regulation onto that.

00:35:38: And what was new to me?

00:35:40: This is very positive surprise Is that VDL decided To bring its triangle.

00:35:47: So on one hand as we said The Triangle Combine other similar projects and find synergies from them.

00:35:55: That's the first point.

00:35:56: then The other point of the triangle was that they bring in their partners as you mentioned, from from the Paul Scherer Institute CERN Singapore Partners to also round out this aspect And let aspects flow in but also that They bring in there partner network on the investment side and Also rounded it with.

00:36:18: And that was also a very big surprise, this next evolutionary step in the cooperation is now being accomplished.

00:36:28: That increases this probability of occurrence.

00:36:32: then with the fact we get the financial part done so we have stock market part and related upgrade yes?

00:36:41: All these are Improves the overall picture that the outlook becomes more realistic when this de-risking has taken place or continued to take place on these pillars here in order then get a nicer.

00:36:56: overall profile.

00:36:57: and then really the goals, to improve environment when you have a healthy environment.

00:37:03: To improve situation for humans.

00:37:05: but also shareholder who puts their money in here takes this risk.

00:37:10: The probability that it pays off many times over is increased And I think what symbolism of today's signature illustrated quite well.

00:37:24: Thank you very much Florian Wagner.

00:37:26: So through the partnership with VDL, things are coming full circle and that's why I'd like to follow that path.

00:37:33: I'm also closing this circle now just as we began it with Norbert Hofer.

00:37:37: Let us take one last look.

00:37:39: let's focus once more on The Big Picture!

00:37:43: The technology is being developed in Graz With VDl industrial expertise from the Netherlands And at the same time, it's about the question of what role Europe can play in new energy technologies in the future.

00:37:57: So Norbert Hofer – What does this partnership mean now for Styria and also for Europe as a technology hub?

00:38:03: Well, Styria is not only the green heart of Austria but the Green Heart of Europe!

00:38:08: The fact that this company is based here in Graz, in Styria... ...is great honour….

00:38:14: …and I'm delighted having been born to be part of this.

00:38:20: What we need to achieve is quite simple.

00:38:21: We have to keep energy intensive industries in Europe because it does us little good if our companies relocate to China or elsewhere like the US and Manufactured cheaply there without any environmental regulations, so with very lax ones And then those products come back here to Europe and we buy them while the jobs are gone.

00:38:43: That's why we need affordable clean and secure Energy.

00:38:48: that is a technology for peace, because no weapons-grade material is produced.

00:38:53: And that's exactly what we have here and I'm really excited to see how things go in the coming years when the prototype is running.

00:39:00: you know?

00:39:01: When we actually had our first reactors in operation.

00:39:04: on how it all develops people will continue looking at Stereo and say incredible this company is headquartered right here in Sterea.

00:39:13: I

00:39:14: have to be completely honest, that actually makes my heart beat a little faster.

00:39:18: That is such beautiful way of putting it as you just said the Green Heart Of Europe.

00:39:23: Stereo As The Green Heart of Europe!

00:39:26: I don't even want add anything other than A Big Thank You Norbert Hofer!

00:39:30: The green heart of europe So...a development from Graz meets industrial manufacturing expertise with a clear goal to turn research and development step by step into an industrially-producible energy system that holds truly revolutionary potential.

00:39:47: And we can all be a part of this Potential Energy Transition because, together with the most energy!

00:39:54: Thank you very much to all five gentlemen for their conversation.

00:39:57: With those, we've reached the end of our episode on Energy Everywhere, the podcast by Emerald Horizon.

00:40:03: If you'd like more about how new energy technologies develop from the lab to industrial application, then please feel free listen the other episodes of Energy Everywhere.

00:40:13: Thank you so much for listening and wishing lots good

00:40:35: energy!